24 July 2005

Christ Conversations

you really busy?

I was playin’ a game… why, what's up? u ok?

just want to ask something… Do we christians believe that Jesus is God?

yes… John 1:1… why?

hmm… cause erm… In John 20:17 Jesus said, "to my father and your father, and to My God and your God'."… i dun get it

interesting… gimme a sec… gonna do a bit of research and get back to u


OK, from what I read, it's quite a simple explanation


it is often tied to what Thomas says in John 20:28... coz he called Jesus "my Lord and my God"... which shows that Jesus is God... but the reason Jesus said "your God and my God" is in reference to his status as a man...

here's what I also found-- "Jesus had called God habitually His Father, and on one occasion, in His darkest moment, His God (when he asked "My God why have you forsaken me?" on the cross). But both are here united, expressing that full-orbed relationship which embraces in its vast sweep at once Himself and His redeemed. Yet, note well, He says not, Our Father and our God. All the deepest of the Church fathers were wont to call attention to this, as expressly designed to distinguish between what God is to Him and to us--His Father essentially, ours not so: our God essentially, His not so: His God only in connection with us: our God only in connection with Him."


basically, remember that Jesus does not say "our Father and our God"... he says, "my Father and your Father, My God and your God"... He says this because he came to earth and became human... so His Father was His God in that human connection with mankind... and because of his sacrifice, our God became our Father thru Jesus Christ… make sense? it's quite a simple explanation, but quite deep at the same time hehe… u want me to explain more?

yes pls

ok... Jesus says, "my Father and your Father, My God and your God"... He does not say "our God and our Father", right?


that's a big difference... also, Jesus says later on on the cross, "My God, why have you forsaken me?"… so he actually says "My God" again

yeah.. but why? isnt he God?

wait, I'm gettin there


Jesus came to earth and became a man... He didn't just appear in the form of a man... he actually became flesh and blood


in many verses in the gospel point towards Jesus being God... and that's true, but we must also remember that he came down as a man... so Jesus uses the phrase "My God" because he came to earth and became human... he made that connection with us... and when he did that, His Father became His "God" in that human connection with mankind... and because of his sacrifice, our God became our Father thru Jesus Christ… Jesus was a man, and the Jews were God's holy people who worshipped and revered Him… so He was God, but also a man who “believed in God”


it all connects to the whole Trinity thing... three=one=three thing

dint jesus came back to life? and went to heaven?

yeah he did

but then wont he still be flesh?

that's a question that's quite hard to answer… it would seem he was... because when he appeared to Thomas at the end of the book of John, he asked Thomas to touch Him and feel the wounds and believe


so I assume He was flesh... but when Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to Mary Magdalene in verse 17, it must have been quite a special thing, because Jesus asked her not to touch him… I dunno... because it was after that, when Jesus came back down to earth again to appear to His disciples that He asked them to touch Him… I think maybe the reason why He asked Mary not to touch Him was coz He had a new glorified body

oh ok.

lemme ask u.... why does it confuse u if jesus rose again but was flesh?

because when Jesus said My God then he become,, er,, not God

what bout the flesh part? u seemed confused about that

cause he die.. he become god??????? I dunno.. then he become flesh again not God again?

he didn't become God... He always was God… He was God, but at the same time, was a man… He lived as a Jewish man under the religious laws of God… and it's a hard concept to understand, but if u read 1 Corinthians 15:35 onwards, it speaks of heavenly bodies and earthly bodies... when Jesus rose again, he gained a heavenly body

oh.. but his earthly body?

upgraded to a heavenly body... but it was still the same body... he was definitely flesh... He said so in Luke 24:39: "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have,"… he said flesh and bones

ok.. But.. in the old testament right.. why does God never say anything about Jesus?

oh there is a lot about Jesus… u just have to know where to look… many of the prophets in the old testament speak of the Messiah… one of my most well-known is Isaiah… of course they didn't say Jesus this and Jesus that,... but there was prophecy of a Messiah… many prophecies actually

oh yeah… ok i get it… And jesus was the one who fulfilled them.. right right?

yep… all hundreds of them

All… not even one missed right?

yep... every single one

but.. Did God allow us to worship the messiah in the old testament?

hehe that's a tough question… quite deep too… u got time to discuss it?

haha yeah i guess so?

hehe ok... 1st of all, how are people saved?

erm.. the cross

yep... more specifically, belief in Christ as the son of God and repentance of sins… basically the requirement for salvation has always been faith, and the object of faith for salvation has always been God, yes?


also, Christ's death paid the penalty for past sins of Old Testament saints and future sins of New Testament saints, yes? everyone before and after the cross


what has changed throughout the centuries is the content of a believer's faith... God's requirement of what must be believed is based on the amount of revelation He has given mankind up to that time... it's called progressive revelation... with me so far? revelation here meaning things that have been revealed


whether many ppl realize it or not, much of the way that God called his ppl to live had a connection to Jesus' death on the cross... Adam believed the promise God gave in Genesis 3:15 that Eve's descendants would conquer Satan... at that point that is all Adam knew, but he believed it... and Jesus is a descendant of Eve... that faith in the future descendant conquering Satan was what saved Adam... even tho he may not have known it, he trusted God


Genesis 15:6 tells us that Abraham believed God and that was enough for God to account it to him for righteousness... because he loved God and trusted Him and walked with Him, God loved Him too... plus, Abraham was the father of many nations, as also an ancestor of Jesus...


The Old Testament system of sacrificing animals did not take away sin, as Hebrews 9:1-10:4 clearly teaches, but it did point to the day when the Son of God would shed His blood for the sinful human race... the lambs they sacrificed were symbols that represented Jesus, who was the Lamb of God... Today, we have more revelation than people living before the resurrection of Christ did, so we know the full picture. So salvation has always been based on the death of Christ, faith has always been the requirement for salvation, and the object of our faith has always been God. The difference between the past and now is that we know more... "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son" (Hebrews 1:1-2). make sense?


did I answer ur question properly?

Yeah you did… it’s just hard to understand the trinity

well, think about it this way-- we're not supposed to understand it... we just have to accept it in faith

really? darn..

haha it's natural to want to understand everything... it's a human thing


but we gotta remember “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:9).


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